Stanley Tookie Williams and clemency

[rick the ripper]

should he get it?

[WanganCoupe]

might as well he already served a while. And he's pretty much changed his life. He should get it but if he does I know they'll make him spend the rest of his life touring and talking to gangbangers around the world on changing their life.

[Nikolie]

I don't get this whole "he's be rehabilitated, he's better now, he's helping ppl". I can't say for sure if he killed those 4 people but he was directly involved in other gang related killings/violence.

Why do ppl believe they should get a second chance when they knew damn well it was wrong when they killed someone else? There should be no second chance bullshit for circumstances like this.

and for those that are saying he should have a second chance, just imagine it was your family that was killed. How would you feel then?

[Mikey]

he should die.

[Nikolie]

didn't he die already? last night?

[verdugo09]

he is death already. wtf man. lol

[Mikey]

awesome.

so whos next?

[Nikolie]

having one of those days again Mikey? haha

[low97accord]

wow...

[Nikolie]

wow what?

[Antonio]

awesome.

so whos next?LOL!!!!!!!

[Latnballer]

So nice to see Nikki around...it's not FSS w/out her

[Nikolie]

haha, thanks but I am sure most would not agree. I don't think a lot of ppl here even know who I am :ugh:

[low97accord]

wow u people are harsh...

[Nikolie]

wow u people are harsh...

why, because we want him to get what he deserved?

[low97accord]

cuz of his past? didnt things change? i guess once ur bad u never get a 2nd chance?

[Boostjunkie]

Eye for an eye...

[gtr_rider]

his already dead....

[Boostjunkie]

cuz of his past? didnt things change? i guess once ur bad u never get a 2nd chance?

Not when you take several peoples lives, or not even apologizing for what he did. Yeah, the fucker deserved it.

[Nikolie]

cuz of his past? didnt things change? i guess once ur bad u never get a 2nd chance?


we are taught growing up the difference between right and wrong. Murder is wrong and he knew this before killing ppl. Why in the world should he get a second chance?

It's not like a misunderstanding or lack of communication...like he didn't get the memo or something. Murder is wrong, you do it, you should get the same.

Let someone kill your family or a loved one and then see how you feel about second chances.

[Boostjunkie]

This is how Ahnold felt about Tookies execution...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v502/ngaplz/ahnoldblood.jpg

[low97accord]

honestly i dont care about what happened too him or why (yea i do know the story) but the way people can act so heartless (no matter what the person did) its still another life being taken away...ever heard "two wrongs dont make a right"?

[Boostjunkie]

Think about it if Arnold had backed down and given this guy clemency. What kind of message would that have sent???? Do whatever you want, kill whoever you want, just make sure that once youre on death row you "change", "find god", and write childrens books. Its a scam.:jerkit:

[valos1479]

I think he got what was comming to him...he killed...so he was killed....end of story....I think we would be a better place if we did work with the eye for an eye system....but thats just me

[SpdRcrChk]

haha, thanks but I am sure most would not agree. I don't think a lot of ppl here even know who I am :ugh:

who the fzuck are u?

[Nikolie]

I don't think it's heartless to want someone to get the death penalty that has killed others. I believe that someone who can murder has no heart so it doesn't bother me in the least.

you don't want to die by the death penalty, don't murder. it's as easy as that. :dunno:

[low97accord]

i guess...like i said, either way it doesnt matter to me, i dont know him nor any of the people that died so it doesnt affect me in anyway...

its none of my business what happens to some1 who does whatever. i just dont think "good for him" or whatever is a good thing to say...i just dont look right. but yea, im done

[Nikolie]

who the fzuck are u?

when I find out I will let you know. :wiggle:

[SpdRcrChk]

it's a date!

[low97accord]

2 girls on a date...nice

[Nikolie]

it's a date!


bring the video camera! :cooldance :cooldance

[Michael]

fuck clemency

u kill someone u should die

u rape someone u should die

u molest children u should die

whats fucked up is the time frame it takes for ur sentence to be carried out, im tired of paying for criminals to get their degrees and y the fuck should they have tv? u take their rights, u take their privillages(sp?), u take their self respect.

IM ALL FOR CAPITAL PUNISHMENT

[Nikolie]

go Mikey go...rah rah rah!

[low97accord]

oh i dont care...


back to the girls and the date

[2kebpsi]

finally it has been carried out

[2kebpsi]

i don't know what's up with all these people sticking up for this guy, he killed people, he was a gang leader, back in thouse days they were killing poeple left & right, nobody knows how many other death's he took part in

[low97accord]

im not sticking up for any1...i was just saying that somethings dont need to be said...ahhhh but its whatever, i think different than most people, shit, i wont even go to sleep knowing some1 i care a lil bit about is mad about me cuz i dont know what will happen while we sleep...

whatever. he got the penalty and thats that


now where are the girls

[Michael]

all he did while he was in jail helped his karma out, thats it, not anyone can do can bring back a life that was taken.

fuck the injection too, bring out "ole sparky"

[low97accord]

ok

[SpdRcrChk]

bring the video camera! :cooldance :cooldance

ur place or mine? :naughty:

[rick the ripper]

I don't get this whole "he's be rehabilitated, he's better now, he's helping ppl". I can't say for sure if he killed those 4 people but he was directly involved in other gang related killings/violence.

Why do ppl believe they should get a second chance when they knew damn well it was wrong when they killed someone else? There should be no second chance bullshit for circumstances like this.

and for those that are saying he should have a second chance, just imagine it was your family that was killed. How would you feel then?

personally im against the death penalty. its a savage hypocracy what right does the state have to empower people to kill. its like saying do as I say not as I do. Further more his case was a joke. He was convicted by the LAPD of the 1970 -1980s one of the most corrupt police forces in U.S. history. Most of their witnesses that led to his conviction were people who were facing charges at the time or if they were alredy in prison. So LAPD and the prosecution bassically bribed 90 percent of the witnesses with plea bargens and reduced sentencing. Their was even a trustee who testified and they have proof that the prosecution brought in shit for him to study and coached him for his time in court but all that is aside the point.

My view point is that the death penalty is pointless. It serves no real purpose.

[rick the ripper]

Eye for an eye...

what the hell is this babylon

Not when you take several peoples lives, or not even apologizing for what he did. Yeah, the fucker deserved it.

why would he appologize if hes maintaining his innocence

we are taught growing up the difference between right and wrong. Murder is wrong and he knew this before killing ppl. Why in the world should he get a second chance?

It's not like a misunderstanding or lack of communication...like he didn't get the memo or something. Murder is wrong, you do it, you should get the same.

Let someone kill your family or a loved one and then see how you feel about second chances.

what secound chance he was in prison. this whole thing is stupid and its costing me more of my tax money. every time some one goes for the death penalty that costs us on average 2.5 million dollars when its a high profile case like this it can go into the 100s. I think the final tally to convict this guy was 14 million dolars. Ted bundy cost us 10 million and this other guy I forget who cost us 80 million dollars. Fuck that shit when life in prison only costs 1 million dollars

Think about it if Arnold had backed down and given this guy clemency. What kind of message would that have sent???? Do whatever you want, kill whoever you want, just make sure that once youre on death row you "change", "find god", and write childrens books. Its a scam.:jerkit:

the message it sent was that california is tough on crime but yet all their tuff on crime laws still make them the state with the most violent crimes. The crime rates in the nation have been going down as a whole but the ones that have all theese tougher laws continue to stay the same or have slower results then just leaving current laws in place

I don't think it's heartless to want someone to get the death penalty that has killed others. I believe that someone who can murder has no heart so it doesn't bother me in the least.

you don't want to die by the death penalty, don't murder. it's as easy as that. :dunno:

but they are still human beings whats the difference between them and the government thats killing them? they are justified? If some one in the state takes the law into there own hands and kills their mothers murderer then they are treated the same way he is but he was merely carying out justice according to your interpretation. so why should he die he is justified? its the same thing the states doing except the state sugar coats the whole thing straps the guy down in a gurney and have the people doing the act dress in white lab coats trying to make it look more like a medical procedure.

what is this fucking rome where we call for peoples heads

fuck clemency

u kill someone u should die

u rape someone u should die

u molest children u should die

whats fucked up is the time frame it takes for ur sentence to be carried out, im tired of paying for criminals to get their degrees and y the fuck should they have tv? u take their rights, u take their privillages(sp?), u take their self respect.

IM ALL FOR CAPITAL PUNISHMENT

yes rush the trials so that their can be even more errors in the judicial system :jerkit:

[rick the ripper]

the main thing I want to know is why you people are for the death penalty really the only thing Im seeing is retribution because it has been prooven that it doesnt work as a deturrent, its more costly, and leaves the option that innocent people might be killed

[Manny]

the main thing I want to know is why you people are for the death penalty really the only thing Im seeing is retribution because it has been prooven that it doesnt work as a deturrent, its more costly, and leaves the option that innocent people might be killed
Someone get this guy a beer :wiggle:

Who gives us the right as humans to play GOD? Nobody. If he killed someone, let God deal with him. You don't realize how many innocent people get accused and sent to jail because of some fuk up or corruptness in the system; to find out later the guy was actually innocent. How the fuk are you going to return 10...20..30 years of a person's life because of some flaw in the system??? Money can't replace that.

[rick the ripper]

exactly, the death penalty leaves no room for error. When DNA testing came out all theese people in death row and in prison were set free it makes you wonder how many others are in there. What are we getting out of this, there are no positive results from it other then retribution even then why. Like Pope John Paul II said, theres no need for the death penalty because modern day prisons have gotten to the point where its hard for people that have committed a capital offense to escape

[Boostjunkie]

Ah, I love the justice system.. Some 20 odd years later and hes just being put to death. hah.

No doubt the guy is guilty, every judge and court came to all the same conclusion (20 years of appeals lol), and Williams himself doesn't even go far to try to discredit his murders. He didn't even write his books, his "girlfriend" actually wrote them for him while he was in the court system. I don't care if he did redeem himself, its too late for what he has done. 4 murders and suffering families need their justice. Its hard to say that Williams has redeemed himself when the head of the prison is saying Tookie is still the same defiant man he was when he arrived. He's thrown chemicals in the faces of guards, planned escapes, beat up other prison members, etc..

I'm glad the right decision was upheld. Justice will be served in the good ol' USA. =)

Oh, and many criminals think jail is great and it wouldn't bother them to be there for life. They are surrounded by their peers and they all have something in common. They get a bed, 3 meals a day, time to work out, tv, internet, etc.. (tv and internet in MANY cases)

[Boostjunkie]

People who don’t agree with the death Penalty would be singing a different tune if one of their family members were murdered. If there wasn’t a shadow of doubt about who murdered their beloved family member, I’d like to see how they would react. I wonder what kind of punishment they would see fit?:jerkit:

[rick the ripper]

People who don’t agree with the death Penalty would be singing a different tune if one of their family members were murdered. If there wasn’t a shadow of doubt about who murdered their beloved family member, I’d like to see how they would react. I wonder what kind of punishment they would see fit?:jerkit:

my opinion wouldnt change, Id rather he be sentenced already so I could move on. The death penalty is pointless it wouldnt bring my family member back and theres no need for this blood lust and the 20 + years is needed you act like every one that gets a death penalty conviction gets executed its less then 10 percent so really theres no point

[Boostjunkie]

If someone killed a family member of mine, I would not give them the chance of a court date. Thats how I feel about it.

[Michael]

the death penalty was brought over with english settlers, when they came over to rape the resources, "find religious freedom" and steal the land from the people who were here b4 them.

the people who commit crimes crimes such as rape and murder, u cease to deserve being treated as a person. The progressive decline in the severity of punishment of crimes as lead to the increase of over population of jails, the early release of criminals who havent be rehabilitated and end up performing their crimes or other like them(the number from some polls is 61%)

if punishments were more sever for lesser crimes, people would be more less inclined to break the law for the simple reason that the gamble they take isnt worth their life.

criminals should be glad i never had sights on being the president, my first and foremost goal would be cleaning out the prison system.

if u want an example of crimes being more sever and their overall affect on crime within a nation, research Japan. See what the crime is like there versus America. You tell me who seems to be more on the right track.

as far as playing God, i could've sworen that the bible(not being the only source of information on "god") teaches forgivness for those who ask for it. NOT killing people. People kill people because of the misinterpretations of "god's wishes". research The Inquisiton its a clear example of man's use of "god" to secure wealth, power, and obidence thru torture, fear, and murder.

What about all the times i've seen people on forums call for "kill all car thieves!!!!"? What if the crime of grand theft auto called for something more sever than minimal jail time, a mark on ur record, and paying back some money?? Now im not saying thats a crime that should be punished by death, but what if it were punished by lets say removal of a hand or at a minimum a person's thumb. Think of all the things that person couldnt do with only one hand or a hand without a thumb. Think they'd give it more thought??

[rick the ripper]

the death penalty was brought over with english settlers, when they came over to rape the resources, "find religious freedom" and steal the land from the people who were here b4 them.

the people who commit crimes crimes such as rape and murder, u cease to deserve being treated as a person. The progressive decline in the severity of punishment of crimes as lead to the increase of over population of jails, the early release of criminals who havent be rehabilitated and end up performing their crimes or other like them(the number from some polls is 61%)

if punishments were more sever for lesser crimes, people would be more less inclined to break the law for the simple reason that the gamble they take isnt worth their life.

criminals should be glad i never had sights on being the president, my first and foremost goal would be cleaning out the prison system.

if u want an example of crimes being more sever and their overall affect on crime within a nation, research Japan. See what the crime is like there versus America. You tell me who seems to be more on the right track.

as far as playing God, i could've sworen that the bible(not being the only source of information on "god") teaches forgivness for those who ask for it. NOT killing people. People kill people because of the misinterpretations of "god's wishes". research The Inquisiton its a clear example of man's use of "god" to secure wealth, power, and obidence thru torture, fear, and murder.

What about all the times i've seen people on forums call for "kill all car thieves!!!!"? What if the crime of grand theft auto called for something more sever than minimal jail time, a mark on ur record, and paying back some money?? Now im not saying thats a crime that should be punished by death, but what if it were punished by lets say removal of a hand or at a minimum a person's thumb. Think of all the things that person couldnt do with only one hand or a hand without a thumb. Think they'd give it more thought??

yeah and when it was originally brought over they used it for every felony. Its riddiculous we are the only western civilization that still uses that crap.

your information is wrong. tougher laws havent done anything for the criminal justice system laws like the three strike laws and zero tollerance have only suceeded in in further burdening the courts and prisons but yet the crime rate stays the same. The best example of this is california. There crime rate pretty much stays the same and they have some of the harshest laws and at the same time there crime rate is declining slower then the states that have more lax laws. Your wrong as well because people who go to county prisons are more likely to be rehabilitated where as people who go to state and serve more time are the ones that end up as repeat offenders. tougher laws put more people in jail they dont work as deturents and then people who are small time crooks dont end up being reformed they come out hardened.

Most of your views are wrong and ill post some links prooving it in a minute.

Further more its impossible to detur criminals with the death penalty because of the nature of the crime.

[rick the ripper]

http://www.soros.org/initiatives/justice/articles_publications/publications/threestrikes_20040923
http://www.frictionmagazine.com/politik/current_events/three_strikes.asp

[Michael]

then right there we shouldnt even burdern the courts systems with proving they are criminals or not, we should just let officers with the judge and jury and shoot on sight.

Ricky for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my views are my own and they are founded on information that i have read hence why they are "my views"

there is never going to be a unanimous decision reached on any subject where someone's life would be placed in the decisions of others.

i totally understand that my views are prolly not going to be the same as even 10% of FSS or even any other public forum. I still voice them cause i can.

BTW, i'd like to continue this, but my lunch break is over. I'll catch up when i get home from work.

+1 for Ricky for making understandable point rather than beating someone down with "ur stupid" comments

[rick the ripper]

my experience in the courts and education on the subject allows me to see real facts and not the crap others put out. Politicians know the death penalty doesnt work the only reason its still in effect is because the public thinks that there should be retribution.

quite frankly I would like to see all the millions we spend on executing be placed some where else. All those millions can be spent on education.

[Michael]

alot of the millions we spend should be better diverted to education.


im all for education, it'd my listed major in college

once this nation takes its head out of its ass and sees where we are going wrong with the youth and the lack of education that they receive we will be 100x better off. i agree with u there ricky.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a350/lewd43/2008.jpg

[rick the ripper]

thats my main gripe about our society we try to attack criminals and all theese other people but we are creating the social settings that give birth to theese criminals. we spend so much time trying to treat the symptoms like theft, roberies and shit like that which for the most part are what lead to murders. Most murders arent premeditated they are the result of another crime that is being comited ie. tookies situation which was robery.

Why do people steal? Look at this idiots life. His dad abandoned his ass and so did his mother so he had to fend for himself with no education and none of the tools needed to survive in society. So what else could he do but become human crap? The guy never reached maturity and alot of theese thugs on the street thats what their problem is they are imature people that cant function in society. So harsher laws arent going to work on theese people because they are to stupid to realize whats going on. You have to drop knowledge on the masses. Treat the disease not the symptoms of the disease.

Fight ignorance with education. We need to do something different because what we are doing now isnt working and ill be honest all this rehabilitation and intervention shit is crap for the most part. You send some one to jail most of those people that come out if they still dont have the tools to make it in society then its gonna be even harder for them to come out.

[rick the ripper]

The best thing Ive read about is where they send people who have gotten in trouble with the law into the armed forces. They give theese people the option join the military or go to jail. Its been pretty effective from what Ive seen. Alot of theese guys join the military and then they get the dicipline that they need. While there in they have a decent life money coming in a place to stay and all they have to do is stay in line. At the same time they are being removed from the social situation that got them in trouble in the first place and then make new military freinds or freinds higher calibur freinds.

then there are the guys that become a problem in the military and get discharged or the guys that do good while they are in and then finish their 4 years and become crap again